BaldwinCity.com

gokstate (Anonymous) says…

Does any body find it interesting that Mr. Craig was among those at the meeting, didn’t speak at the meeting, and has declined to comment on the issue, but has his nephew Matt Quick speak for him????

kermit (Anonymous) says…

They are related???? Good grief…….what gives with this group?

Why did they wait until NOW to show up and air their grieveances? You'd think if they were that upset they would show up while the council was still discussing this.rather than wait until weeks after the decision has been made. I don't understand their thinking nor their timing. It's not as if this decision was a big secret. Everyone who pays any attention at all or who reads the newspaper knows this was being discussed. There is even a blog on Speakout about this. So the timing of this interests me greatly.

I'm curious. What are these guys prepared to do if they don't get the council to change their decision?

FeelLikeaStranger (Anonymous) says…

“We want Allen. We trust him with our lives.”

Really!? As a citizen of this community, I don't believe I feel the same! I'm sure the Stott family would feel the same as myself… Probably why they no longer live in town.

whocares2008 (Anonymous) says…

What does Allen have to do with the Stotts? What happened to the Stotts house was not his fault.

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

I can tell you why we went now instead of before. We were told there would be nothing to worry about. It is the stuff behind closed doors that you did not hear about that has us concerned. And what difference dose it make if there is family on a fire department or not? Most of the FDNY is family and they opperate just fine!!

Warhorse (Anonymous) says…

FLAS/wc2008… You both make very strong points in your posts… It's just so hard to decide what side to take!… sheesh

Monkey… fdny…? the Fire Department of New York City? The one that employs full time firefighters, who report to a fire chief hired by the city of New York, which the posting (I'm sure) had FAR more prerequisites than the one posted by Baldwin? Yes… They operate just fine. Apples and Oranges…

If by saying “we had nothing to worry about” and “things happening behind closed doors”, you mean that you assumed that Allen would be just given the job, then I don't think you have any understanding of the articles written by the US Department of Labor and the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission).

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

I do understand how EEOC works, that is not what I was refering to. Apples to Oranges? It does not matter if FDNY is paid or not there is still family working together. The only difference between Volunteers and Career is a paycheck. That is the only difference. A Volunteer sacrifices more than a career person.

kermit (Anonymous) says…

Monkey
Maybe my “family” remark was too harsh but since I know Allen's son is also on the staff it does make me wonder how many relatives are part of this group? Can you be truly ojective when “dad” , “uncle Allen” or whatever the realtionship might be when that leadership is called in question? I think this is a fair question to ask so I am asking it now with respect, not the sarcasm I used before.

Another fair question: What steps are you guys going to take if the city council doesn't capitulate to your demands? I think the citizens you serve have a right to know what you guys are thinking.

whocares2008 (Anonymous) says…

Kermit-

What difference does it make if they are related or not? Those men and woman risk their lives for the town of Baldwin. I think they have to right to be heard and have to right to voice their opinion. They volunteer to be there, so being related should not be an issue. It seems to me that they are all standing behind Allen. Have you noticed that half of this town is related? These fire fighters are together two times a month for meetings and trainings then also whenever that pager goes off, so yes they are all family. They have to trust each other with their lives at firecalls and they want the person that is in command to know what he is doing and to know that they are safe. They have that with Allen. I don't know if you have noticed but there are not to many people in Baldwin that want to volunteer their time for Baldwin. Those men and woman that do are some very special people.

kermit (Anonymous) says…

Ok–—fair enough answer about being related. I do however disagree with your statement that”..have you noticed but there are not to many people in Baldwin that want to volunteer thier time for Baldwin”. If you are just strictly speaking about the fired department then maybe you are right. I don't know. However I do know that there are LOTS and LOTS of folks who volunteer for this community all the time in all kinds of ways that have nothing to do with the fire department.

However neither you or Monkey have answered my other question. What exactly are your plans if the city council doesn't hire Allen as the fire chief? I think you guys are avoiding answering this question because you don't think the citizen's of Baldwin will like your answer. Am I wrong??

notwhatyouthink (Anonymous) says…

Getting back to the point of the article. You should be qualified to be a full time paid chief. You are talking about a postion that will pay between 40K and 60K.

Why can't Allen meet the qualifications? EMT certification? Shouldn't he already be? come on most full time fire depts require that now.
I don't know what type of guy Allen is, but if he wants the job I would think that he would get what the city requires.

The citizens of Baldwin City deserve the best qualified, and if they are paying for it then they can set what they want.

Why doesn't some family member post just exactly how Allen can't meet the requirements and be hired.

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

Kermit,

I have not been avoiding your question, I dont have the luxury to sit in front of a computer all the time, so I can only answer when i have time. I can only tell you what I am going to do personally. I am going to stay on as long as the new in charge treats me with respect or I am told that I dont matter I am just a “Volunteer”. Which I am pretty tired of hearing that in the tone of voice I am hearing it in. You can like my answer or you can come down to the fire station and join.

kermit (Anonymous) says…

Monkey
I understand that to mean you will give a new “in charge” a fair shot at supervising you. Even if that means Allen doesn't get the job? I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. Is this correct?

Just curious, who told you you didn't matter because you are just a “volunteer”?

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

Kermit,
You understand correct. I am not going to disclose any names, cause it is not my intention to ruin this person or discredit. It will all iron out in the end.

whocares2008 (Anonymous) says…

Kermit-

I also was not avoiding your question. I can' t give you an answer to what is going to happen to the department if Allen doesn't get the position because I am not on the department. I don't know what is going to happen.

kermit (Anonymous) says…

Monkey
I am glad to hear that you are not planning to quit if things don't go the way you and your fellow volunteers want them to go. thank you for putting that nasty rumor to rest.

I respect the fact you don't want to start naming names. I just wanted to make sure someone actually used those words to you and your fellow firefighters… not just something you thought they “meant”. If someone did actually say that then that wasn't a very wise thing to say. As I too, am a volunteer in several organizations, I would not appreciate someone telling me my opinion didn't matter either.

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

Kermit,

“I am glad to hear that you are not planning to quit if things don't go the way you and your fellow volunteers want them to go”

That statement is not what we are angry with. We are angry that we have had no voice. It is not a matter of getting ones way. I can tell you that we had a meeting last night and Chief Craig reiterated that he “WILL not apply for the chiefs position, he will remain on the department as a firefighter.”

The one thing we have been trying to push is a full time firefighter would be cheaper and benefit the city better. you could pay a full time firefighter $29,000 to start and save $11,000. The city wants a guy that can fight fires, well a chief is an administrative position. A firefighter is a front line getter done kind of person. The last one we had did not work because he did not follow the chain of command and he had no communication with the department. The comment was made at the City council meeting to me when I brought up the years of experience was too low, a council member said they would not be able to pay someone with experience. Here is the solution, higher a full time firefighter.

sparky (Anonymous) says…

“We are angry that we have had no voice.”

I believe your voice was with your vote at the last city council elections. It was all over in the paper that this was being discussed at the council meetings, which are open to the public I might add. You can also go there and voice your concerns.

I would think that if this is going to be a city employee, then the city should be able to make the call as to what the qualifications should be for the position they decide to hire.

I give volunteers all the respect in the world for what they do, whether it is with the fire department, or other organizations. But I don't think you should have a paid full time city employee answering to one.

Warhorse (Anonymous) says…

Monkey…
Your argument that “you've had no voice” doesn't hold water. You had every opportunity to voice concerns. That's what Kermit is talking about! You guys wait till AFTER the decision was made, and you blame your city council and city administration because you “have had no voice”? Doesn’t that contradict your own argument? I mean, they are public meetings, they do have agenda’s. I’m fairly certain you had an idea that they were going to be discussing this topic during the city council meetings. Shouldn’t you have voiced your concerns before it passed?

So was the full time firefighter let go for insubordination or something? Did he quit? Just not sure what you're trying to insinuate and why you would even bring it up??

sparky (Anonymous) says…

The full time fire fighter resigned because he was getting two different sets of orders from two different directions. One from the city administrator (which in my opinion was the correct person) and one from the “volunteer” fire chief.

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

To both of your replies, there is no difference between a volunteer and a paid person except a pay check!!! So then what you are saying is that the guys that worked so hard to get an officers position, doesnt mean jack. Lets just abolish the whole chain of command that the guys worked very hard to get to, and see whole will give a hoot to work towards anything.

And Yes we could have gone to a council meeting, but why take it to one when you are promised a meeting 2 months before it was voted on? You say that the city should have a say in what they want to hire, true, but say I come to your work and be your boss I have no exerience and tell you how it is going to be and how you are going to do it? That might not be a good comparision since our lives are on the line with this guy, but you would not like it. Dont say you would not say anything about it cause if you would be lieing. I can show you instances where a commanding officer did not have any expeirence killed or near missed killing personell cause he/she did not have the experience that they should have. I can tell you that it is not my life, or any of my fellow firefighters for that matter. I can also tell you by your statement that if we segregate the paid from the volunteer you will have chaos and a lot of people quit. everyone is equal!!!!!!! If you think we are in the wrong that is fine, come fill out an application to join and tell us. I garuntee that no one will show up. I have told everyone on here before that if you dont like what you are reading or being told come down and join and change the wave. And you know what no one shows up. Good thing this comment section is just for Entertainment.

Warhorse (Anonymous) says…

Why not take it to a meeting? Because if you have a strong belief in something, you should voice that opinion every opportunity you have! It’s not the fault of the Council or the city administration that you were not there… that, Monkey, is on you and you alone.

A full time firefighter, in my opinion, would never work for this fire department. As sparky states, and I agree, he would always be receiving orders from two directions. You argue that he should be taking command from the Chief as opposed to taking orders from his employer. Doesn’t really make any sense, does it? I mean, wouldn’t an employee be following the proper chain of command if he goes through, seeks advice and takes his orders from his hiring manager? I don’t know what you do full time Monkey, but I’m pretty confident that you report to you hiring manager.

I going to guess that my argument doesn’t matter to you. I mean, if I have to “apply and join” just to express my opinion to a department that is supposed to protect my life, then who are you really segregating yourselves from? I think we should have a voice as the public… not as a member of your department. If you disagree, then just keep in mind where the money came from to buy all that equipment that the department uses.

You know, the day is going to come when a new Chief is going to have to step in. Whether it’s due to a new full time Chief or someone stepping in to replace a Chief that has retired. You are going to have to face the fact that things change… and to think someone is going to come in and NOT take your safety into consideration is completely asinine. I get the feeling you’re one of those people that feel “the man” is out to get you. If you’re so worried about someone leading you into harms way, then quit.

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

You have some valid points, but as the employee handbook states we are part time employees. The city considers us employees.

You want to know the kicker, I work for a full time department, we have volunteers, we are treated the same regardless of our background. And you want to know the kicker, we have volunteer officers that I still have to answer to. They say jump I say how high. I have been in the service for little under 10 yrs and just because you have paper to show you can do something doesnt mean you can. I am not one of those guys that thinks “the Man” is out to get me, I could care less. He can get all he wants.

The only reason I tell you come join, there are too many people in this city that take the departments for granted, yes that is plurl I am talking about them all. they want to piss and moan about how they do things or that they were not there in time or what ever the reason is. You have your opportunity to change what you dont like then join them and see how hard their job really is.

“Why not take it to a meeting? Because if you have a strong belief in something, you should voice that opinion every opportunity you have! It’s not the fault of the Council or the city administration that you were not there… that, Monkey, is on you and you alone. ” – You know why did we not address this sooner, well when we were told that they would come down to the station and meet with us before this all laid the way it did, why should we take off work? I dissagree with you on a full time firefighter not being what we need, The council and the city have said that this is about money, we can't pay someone with expeirence that we need. Well lets lower the pay to around $30,000 and save $10,000 and higher a firefighter. I am a tax payer here too!!!

You are right that the day will come that we will need a chief to replace the current due to retirement or otherwise, but why start something off by putting all the eggs in the basket? They usually get broke when you fall.

Hmm, sounds to me like I am fighting for the wrong cause. I am just a volunteer, who cares what I think right?

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

The more I think about it, I have said my piece so let see what happens, now it is time to as they say in the casino “let'r ride”

Warhorse (Anonymous) says…

“I work for a full time department, we have volunteers, we are treated the same regardless of our background. And you want to know the kicker, we have volunteer officers that I still have to answer to. They say jump I say how high.”

“I dissagree with you on a full time firefighter not being what we need, The council and the city have said that this is about money, we can't pay someone with expeirence that we need. Well lets lower the pay to around $30,000 and save $10,000 and higher a firefighter. I am a tax payer here too!!!” – Yet a full time Chief would have no respect because he wouldn't have enough experience??

Obviously it didn't work the first time we hired a full time firefighter, what makes you think it'd be any different?

“why start something off by putting all the eggs in the basket? They usually get broke when you fall.” –— Not exactly sure what you mean by this statement? Aren't the current Chief's “eggs all in one basket”?

You know… I never really had a problem with the fire department, didn't really even concern me till I read this article, I threw out my opinion and was countered with yours. Great!! THAT is what these message boards are for (sorry you think that these are “just entertainment” for those uneducated individuals on the outside that just don’t understand). I don't agree with most of your arguments, that's just the world of politicking, you’re not going to beat your beliefs into 100% of those that you engage in conversation with.

We’ll just agree to disagree…

One question… why is it that you would have to “take off work”? Is there a majority that agrees with the above disputes? Why can’t anyone else express their opinion regarding these issues? Just curious…

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

“One question… why is it that you would have to “take off work”? Is there a majority that agrees with the above disputes? Why can’t anyone else express their opinion regarding these issues? Just curious…”

Can you elaberate?

Warhorse (Anonymous) says…

I certainly will… I'm just questioning why other members of the volunteer fire department didn't feel it was their responsibility to show up for any council meeting prior to the decision? If there is someone that is supposed to present the questions in a formal meeting, like the one you said that you were “promised” to have, or could one attend a council meeting with concerns as a Baldwin Citizen?

Monkey (Anonymous) says…

Couldnt tell ya.

I will note that we did have a meeting last night and Ironed out misconceptions and rumors with the public safety committee. The one thing that we all agreed on is the communication between groups needs to improve!!!! Everything should run smoother now. For those that wanted to know.